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Offline Maou  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, October 21, 2014 9:17:23 PM(UTC)
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How many demons are fuzzy?

Beyond that the generic humanoid demons are intimidating and repulsive (by human standards), incubi/succubi are attractive and hormone-inducing, and humans can likely think of a lot of stupid reasons to initially summon demons, so it stands to reason that the abyssal demons might have a few variations beyond rank. So what are the other types of demons in the abyss if they exist, and what types of auras and appearances might they have?
Offline Tizzy  
#42 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:53:13 AM(UTC)
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Well...that sort of depends on what you call demons since there are other denizens with quite different shapes that aren't exactly demons...basilisks, dragons, nightmares, etc...

But about anything you can wake up screaming thinking about is around, somewhere.

As I've mentioned though, you don't find a whole lot of 100 foot plus tall demons since it's really a pain to interact with other demons and to find furniture that doesn't get crushed.

What, they just going to stand in that swamp or 1000 foot deep chasm? Some of these demon pictures by various artists just don't make a lot of practical sense.

Of course, you do find impractical demons, typically shape changed that way as a punishment from an overlord.
Offline Maou  
#43 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2014 3:36:00 AM(UTC)
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So what types of demon are there beyond the average demon which i will now call a devil and a cubi which will try to seduce you. I will also assume more cubi are female or feminine as I think horny teenage males are more likely to summon a demoness for obvious reasons than the reverse. Not saying it can't happen, but it is always the horny teenage boy from most of my past experiences, which I won't elaborate on.
Offline Madfox11  
#44 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:29:55 AM(UTC)
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I don't know, really huge demons do wonders as living siege engines and spreading terror on battlefields. I certainly have read about such types, although they do tend to be the stupid types and they are often created and/or bread by fellow demons and mad wizards.

Note btw that if getting children is the prime goal, then you actually would prefer male scubi. Sure, they might not be summoned as much (which I really wouldn't bet on since in general at least on Earth woman tend to be really frowned on when having sexual relations beyond that of their husbands, and no scubi is going to blathermouth), but one male can impregnate a lot more woman then the other way around. Myths on low-magic worlds also tend to depict women more often as demon summoners, but that I blame squarely on male propaganda ;)
Offline Maou  
#45 Posted : Wednesday, October 22, 2014 5:05:21 PM(UTC)
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While an incubus or male cubi as I call them would be better for breeding, people rarely think of breeding demons. It seems to be frowned upon. It needs to be consensual for two demons to merge animus and this is typically quite costly, so trying to breed half demons would be better using a male demon and female mortals. For best results a large demon is best, but demons fear spells have the greatest effect on children and women, and for some reason most women start panicking when they see something as big or bigger than their thigh going in. They can get smaller but most demons are an S to mortals.

Moving beyond that looking at past myths from a patriarchal society will likely result in many stories used to show that women with power is bad and must be oppressed by men. It is justification of them being unable to resist temptation on their own. Realistically uneducated women would likely have very little ability to do anything of a demonic nature and males would likely be able to do more damage to more people. Female killers are often times more efficient as they go for the kill and then don't take trophies in most cases. I do not however believe this to be a case such as that. If our culture was a matriarchy we would likely have stories to justify not giving power to men, and a mixed society would likely lean more towards the dominant culture. Western society is a patriarchy. Men tend to do better in life, are names a passed on, and we are often viewed as more responsible for our actions.

Wizards would however likely be hunted down quickly for capturing mortal women to breed half demons. Not sure if a demon hasn't done it yet though. Some half-demons are close to their mortal parent in most aspects, and could in theory pass as another race if they built up sufficient numbers. Half-demons however have a short life expectancy if left alone do to angry villagers and priests. Nice plan though.
Offline Madfox11  
#46 Posted : Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:39:21 AM(UTC)
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Do you need to litterally breed demons or could you actually create them through magical modifying existing demons (in books the far more common way to create those living siege engine types)?
Offline Maou  
#47 Posted : Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:41:33 PM(UTC)
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If you wanted to you could use the demon binding ritual on an Astlanian soul with the intention of making a demon. They typically use souls of beings whose identity they cannot recognize, but you could really use any soul for the purpose of creation. Typically Astlanian souls are used by necromancers and their souls and true names are often protected by a deity, but a demon with mind reeving (21 animage ability), which doesn't technically exist, you could simply rip a multitude from a priest or see if the person them-self knows it. Not sure about magic in Astlan, but in some realities that I know of magic is stronger when a person knows of their true name. It holds power over the person so they could likely use it to empower themself and since mind reading is mythical in story their is little risk provided you don't say it. Just use their name, sever their silver cord, kill them and capture the spirit, or find the spirit lingering on its own and then use it to make a demon, or whatever other mana construct you desire. You could make them hard to find for espionage, or have a calming and reassuring presence for somebody with great charisma, really you are just limited by the summoner's and the summoned's imagination.
Offline Tizzy  
#48 Posted : Thursday, October 23, 2014 11:11:05 PM(UTC)
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Various points:

1) No one in Astlan would be making demons out of humans, they KNOW it doesn't work that way. Demons are primordial beings who are innately evil. You can't make one.
2) Demon princes often reshape lesser demons in to other forms, other types of demons for their own purposes...this is generally a very Chalkeresque experience and not something one wants to happen.
3) Women often summon Incubae. But remember, Incubae carry the seed of other demons, by default without another demon, they shoot blanks so the woman doesn't get pregnant...and incubae have other characteristics (long prehensile tongues, funky tails, multiple sets of arms, etc) that make them super lovers. So they make incredible secret lovers behind a husband's back.


Spoiler: this is basically what's going on with that shifty, untrustworthy, lying incubus in Book II.


Offline Rosver  
#49 Posted : Friday, October 24, 2014 12:21:35 AM(UTC)
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And why would wizards breed more demons. That is just looking for trouble... not that the wizards aren't in trouble for binding demons in the first place.

@Tizzy:

number 3 sounds very much like a Hentai Tentacle monster. I can't decide if I'm to be amused or repelled.
Offline Maou  
#50 Posted : Friday, October 24, 2014 12:27:28 AM(UTC)
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I thought demons could shape-shift into anything. In theory a demon could turn into a cat with practice. They typically choose a humanoid shape as it is what they are most familiar with and is the easiest for them, or they try to create a weaponized or idolized form. I doubt Bess was originally a cat-headed woman with that looked like a living statue and I doubt that Lenamare naturally ages. He is an entire line of wizards with slightly variant features, none of them looked the same so he would have to age himself in a believable manner, pretend to be injured, keep track of all his scars, and somehow take characteristics of himself and the female he is using for his mother at the time. He also needs to appear as a child while growing up, he would also have to have both his parental and child forms present at the same time on some occasions or the illusion would break. Aging, scars, bleeding, and his corpse would all have to be faked. Demons are limited by familiarity and time. So a dragon could pose as a human, demon, or reptile. A demon doesn't need to be a human either as it was shown that some of them were twisted into fauns and other demonic Greek nonhuman creatures and what not. Less human forms simply take longer to perfect and maintain for demons.
Offline Tizzy  
#51 Posted : Friday, October 24, 2014 12:58:39 AM(UTC)
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WELL...now that you bring it up.

I think you meant Exador hardly ages...but...actually he does. This was touched upon late in book 1 and is talked about more in book 2, he actually continuously shape shifts to age himself. And he does the "never in the same room at the same time trick" to have both father and son interact with people. Now...the real question that we don't know the answer to is...who is Mrs. Exador and what's her story?

The vast majority of demons can not shape shift. Not all Greater Demons can shape shift. I would argue that at best, half of them can.

As to Bess? Well in book ii you'll know more. But yes, she changes her appearance frequently. She wasn't looking like a cat on the carpet during the climax. Sipping tea from a china tea cup is tricky for a cat on a carpet. Lap, yes, drink, no.

And as to the limits, I point you back to what Rupert told Tom. The more different the form is from what you are used to or your true form/self image, the harder it is to maintain.






Offline Maou  
#52 Posted : Saturday, October 25, 2014 5:19:32 PM(UTC)
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Also how would a shifted demon go about crying or sweating? Would they need to eat the required materials, do it with no difficulty, or be forced to use complex/simple spells.
Offline Tizzy  
#53 Posted : Saturday, October 25, 2014 10:06:37 PM(UTC)
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Having never done either, I can't say for sure.

I suppose if you shape changed and had a good enough form and control, it would come built in/natural.

There are, however, some demons that can cry/exude tears. Pretty sure Antefalken can as it's most likely something he has to fake to get all those house maids in bed.
Offline Rosver  
#54 Posted : Monday, October 27, 2014 3:19:14 AM(UTC)
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You have to sweat to get girls in bed? Don't know sweat and female libido are connected.
Offline Maou  
#55 Posted : Monday, October 27, 2014 6:03:10 AM(UTC)
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Why is Antefalken an exception to the general dislike of human women to the idea of sex with a demon?
Offline Rosver  
#56 Posted : Monday, October 27, 2014 12:44:47 PM(UTC)
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Yeah. He doesn't seem to apear appealing as a sexual partner.
Offline spacer  
#57 Posted : Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:31:57 AM(UTC)
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This thread line is called ETA: next book, right? So can someone tell me when the estimated time of arrival is for DOA 2?
Offline Tizzy  
#58 Posted : Tuesday, October 28, 2014 4:51:49 AM(UTC)
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Tears...not sweat, he has to appear moved by emotional things, weepy weepy.

He's actually pretty good looking by human standards, other than the wings and ok, the hooves...but I point out that Satyrs have zero problems getting the ladies so it's really just the wings. He's also a bard, they are really good at raking in the groupies.
Offline Tizzy  
#59 Posted : Tuesday, October 28, 2014 4:55:09 AM(UTC)
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Yes, the thread is ETA of next book.

But T-A-G is so incredibly slow we've moved on to other things in the thread.

However, there is hope that spring will bring great things....for one thing he's planning on using a real editor and that can add a lot of time...plus there will be the beta reader program...depending on how all that goes and what changes there are...it could go longer, I fear.

I have to go rescue Tom now, so I will have to answer the other forum posts that are outstanding tomorrow...
Offline Jonnyboi  
#60 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2014 5:19:10 AM(UTC)
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Define "saving" since it seems that mortals and demons have a radical way of looking at things and well I wouldn't want to have a misunderstanding considering our varying stages of insanity.
It's hard to be good so why try?
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