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Offline The Author Guy  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2019 5:07:10 PM(UTC)
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So here is Tom in game terms (which don't make a lot of sense if you don't have the rulebook)

He was created in the rulebook as a far end example of a demon. Tom in the Book came first and I created the character in game based on the book.

CLB is Combat Level Bonus, DT is basically hit points. Knowledge, Cleverness, Will power, Magnetism, Strength, Dexterity, Agility, Stamina, Constitution.
AF is Attack Factor (bonus to attack) DF is Defense Factor (subtracted from opponents AF)

The Demon Tomasedwordpurkinjay:

Class IV: Level: 44
KNO: 54 CLE: 50 WIL: 49
MAG: 50 STR: 60 DEX: 46
AGI: 41 STM: 58 CON: 53

CLB: +176 DT: 261
MANA: 1716 (Animage based)

Description:
Height: 10'
Gargantuanly Muscular (+25 STR, +15 STM,
+15 CON) -20% opponents RRs.
Tail: Whipcord like with large spade tip.
Wings: Large bat-like 20' span.
Arms: Demon standard arms and claws.
Legs: Bull-like double jointed with cloven
hooves and texture the same as upper
body.
Horns: Large goat-like, 6" long.
Skin Color: Dark Red.
Skin Texture: Finely scaled, bald head, fine
scale hairs and hair in nether regions
only. +2 AP
Eyes: Cat-like.
Ears: Large sharply pointed..
Face: Short snout, large fangs and pointed
teeth.

ADJ DEX: 46 ADJ AGI: 41
COORD: 44 MV: 66

ACTIONS/ROUND: 7 (2 attacks/action)

ARMOUR: stops 6 DT (skin)

ATTACKS: (with claws, 2x per action)
each claw is treated as bastard
sword, +4 AF and +4 DT.
Also +8 DT damage due
to STR.
AF: (with claw) +226 (club +8 DT each).
DF: 221

Magical Abilities:
Standard demon magical abilities.
Quote:

All demons radiate a Fear spell to every being in a 200 combat square line of sight. This fear is equivalent to the 3rd level wizard spell Fear, as if cast by a wizard of level equal to the demons.
All demons also automatically have Demon Sight at no cost at will. Demon Sight is identical to Wizard Sight, except that in addition, the demon can see and detect animus concentrations as well as mana concentrations. Demons are hard to affect with magic. Demons get +5%/class added to their RR on all spells not specifically designed to affect demons. Thus a class III demon gets +15% on his Resistance Rolls. Further demons are immune to all charm and beguilement spells not specifically designed for demons.
All demons regenerate DT at a rate equal to their class level per minute. Further only certain spells actually kill demons. If a demon gets to 0 DT it is simply banished to the Abyss. There it will regenerate normally, and can be summoned back by its master.
All demons have the wizard spell Wizard War and can engage any wizard they are not bound to, or expressly forbidden (by master) from engaging. Of course since many non spell using demons have little mana, this is often not useful. If a demon does not have sufficient mana to start a Wizard War (16 points) it may still do so for no cost, once per month. If the demon should win the wizard war, the demon may excercise the wizard spell Robotomy (no mana cost) over the defeated wizard. If the demon fails, he or she is unable to do anything but rest for 6d4 minutes. This is the only time a demon may use the Robotomy spell, if it does not have it by other means.
Shadows, while of low level are some of the most intrinsically magical demons. They have no true body as one normally thinks of bodies. Rather they are amorphous regions of darkness. Technically they have no physical attributes (STR, CON, etc.) however, these are rolled normally. While they do not have true physical attributes, their magical nature mimics these attributes. Thus they have strength and can lift things that they engulf. Further they can do damage (like normal demon claws, to things beings they engulf). If they were to wield weapons, they would have to be inside the demon and attack creatures inside the demon's body.
Finally, and sometimes most troubling. Shadows and demons of class IV, V, and VI can only be affected by magical or silver weapons. All non-magical or silver weapons simply pass right through them, even iron ones. Monsters of level equal to 1/2 the demon's or higher may successfully attack the demon with claws.

Demon's tail gives off electric jolts, 4d6 damage (4 mana cost)
Demon can shoot energy blasts from claws. 12 DT damage/claw.
Laser eyes, dual laser beams do 12 DT damage each.
Demon can cast wizard Firestorm at will (normal mana cost)
Demon has the spell casting ability of an Animage of equal level.
Demon has 4 lesser demon servants. (Rupert, Boggie, Tizzy, Antefalken?)
Demon can shape change at will. (20 mana pt cost).

Offline The Author Guy  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2019 5:07:55 PM(UTC)
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Needless to say, that is Book I Tom.

Not Book II or later.

And look, I forgot to list his tail, non-magically. That's a 3rd attack and also a blade weapon.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 18, 2019 5:09:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Dungeon Roomba  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2019 5:42:56 PM(UTC)
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Tom has laser eyes? Did I miss that in the books!?
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Offline Lunarmage  
#24 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:58:39 AM(UTC)
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Author Guy, now you are just teasing us.
Offline The Author Guy  
#25 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2019 2:15:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gelcube Go to Quoted Post
Tom has laser eyes? Did I miss that in the books!?


Heh heh, I know!

No, he's never used them, I am very sure I completely forgot about them.

Given the timing, I am guessing this game example was written around the same time, or shortly before Heron of Triage lifted off the ground with his airships from Oorstemoth.

I am guessing I had it planned or something. This was all a VERY long time ago.
Offline The Author Guy  
#26 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2019 2:18:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Lunarmage Go to Quoted Post
Author Guy, now you are just teasing us.


That would be Tizzy teasing....

However, this really exists.

Somewhere, I have Lenamare as well. Just not sure where. I think it's on paper rather than computer, in which case it's buried in a closet.

The Tom character was done for an example of extreme demon creation/possibilities, there are several smaller demons I've done as well.

Lenamare would have been done as practice in how to create a high level wizard, and I'd have done it for myself as a beta test exercise for the game.

It was very tedious to figure out all of his skills and spells etc.

Edited by user Thursday, September 19, 2019 2:20:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Korwin  
#27 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:30:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Author Guy Go to Quoted Post
EEK: Just found Tom's character sheet! He was never actually played as a character, we never got anyone high enough level to not be squashed by him.
Please post his sheet.
Love
Offline The Author Guy  
#28 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:50:12 PM(UTC)
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It's actually above.

It was formatted in an ancient word processing program, because it was in the manual, so I pasted a pure text version a couple posts back.

It's an Animus character so that stats are different than D&D, etc.

As an FYI, stats start at D&D levels and can just keep going up, there isn't the sort of exponential curve that happens in D&D once you get past 18, where suddenly you can't compare the strength of Hercules to the strength of Atlas because the scale 19->25 is too small.

Combat is all D100, and there are modifiers for attacker AF, defender DF and magic weapons, and spells.

In terms of his crazy mana. The base version of a spell costs the square of the level of the spell and then there are modifiers to the cost based on extending the range, area of affect and damage.

E.g. by default a 3rd level Lightning bolt always does 3D6 damage up to some range for 9 mana points However, higher level characters can increase the range or the number of dice of damage by expending more mana.

High level Fireballs could get very expensive in that you have range, area of affect and damage to expand by spending mana (caster's choice which, if not all, and how much, they want to do). So for example: a 30th level Wizard doesn't have to do 30D6 worth of damage when the basic 3D6 is sufficient.

Which was the case in ADD 1.0, but limited in later versions. Here, it's up to the caster and how much mana they want to spend. Maybe they want to completely vaporize the Giant Rat and give everyone else in the vicinity a new hair do, due to static electricity.

Edited by user Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:52:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Lunarmage  
#29 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2019 5:34:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Author Guy Go to Quoted Post
It's actually above.


In terms of his crazy mana. The base version of a spell costs the square of the level of the spell and then there are modifiers to the cost based on extending the range, area of affect and damage.

E.g. by default a 3rd level Lightning bolt always does 3D6 damage up to some range for 9 mana points However, higher level characters can increase the range or the number of dice of damage by expending more mana.

High level Fireballs could get very expensive in that you have range, area of affect and damage to expand by spending mana (caster's choice which, if not all, and how much, they want to do). So for example: a 30th level Wizard doesn't have to do 30D6 worth of damage when the basic 3D6 is sufficient.

Which was the case in ADD 1.0, but limited in later versions. Here, it's up to the caster and how much mana they want to spend. Maybe they want to completely vaporize the Giant Rat and give everyone else in the vicinity a new hair do, due to static electricity.



This is I think what most games now are missing. The flexibility of higher level characters to mitigate their own damage output. Yet another reason I would love to see this game hit the market, and to not be bought out by WotC.
Offline The Author Guy  
#30 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2019 6:30:53 PM(UTC)
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You know Tizzy would never allow ANY wizard or group of wizards to buy anything he's associated with?

Pretty sure all the other demons would object as well.

Even Lenamare and the CoW might object, since WotC is clearly a rival group of wizards.

Offline Korwin  
#31 Posted : Friday, September 20, 2019 5:35:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Author Guy Go to Quoted Post
It's actually above.
I think I missed the second page, yesterday RollEyes
Originally Posted by: The Author Guy Go to Quoted Post
It's an Animus character so that stats are different than D&D, etc.

As an FYI, stats start at D&D levels and can just keep going up, there isn't the sort of exponential curve that happens in D&D once you get past 18, where suddenly you can't compare the strength of Hercules to the strength of Atlas because the scale 19->25 is too small.
Not shure I get, what you are talking about here. Are you talking about AD&D?
Only started with D&D 3.0.
My currently played Gnome Shadowcraft Mage has an Str. of 48 when he Shapechanges into an Pit Fiend (with Equipment).
Originally Posted by: The Author Guy Go to Quoted Post
Combat is all D100, and there are modifiers for attacker AF, defender DF and magic weapons, and spells.
Roll over, roll under or what?


Thanks for the sheet, I will take it as Basis for converting Lord Tommus.
Now what to do, with his Rod... Cool
Offline The Author Guy  
#32 Posted : Friday, September 20, 2019 2:34:46 PM(UTC)
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In Original D&D, Basic D&D and ADD 1/2 and I thought 3, have a maximum ability score of 18 for most normal characters/beings, and a minimum of 3.

However, when talking about immortals (and demons) that scale is raised to a 25 max in ADD v1 (Actually, I think it was also 25 in Gods, Demigods & Heroes the 4th digest of the Original D&D, but I'd have to look, it's only minorly buried)

This means that things start to get rather skewed for high abilities as there really isn't much range, presumably if you can lift a boulder the size of a small mountain, you can also lift an entire planet....point being it wasn't very exact. (Hercules tosses giant boulders and Atlas lifts a planet on his back).

Caveat, I haven't actually played using 3. I hated 2 so much, I stuck with 1.

Here is a quick excerpt on the Melee Attack Procedure (this is just one small part of combat, a single action--how actions line up is another section and depends on the COORD of the involved parties (COORD is average DEX & AGIL)

Quote:

Melee Attack Procedure

1) Roll % dice (1-100).

a) If a result of 98-00 (modified by certain skills) occurs, roll the damage for your weapon and go to the weapon's critical table. Roll % dice again for the result of the critical.

b) If a result of 01-03 occurs, to directly to the fumble table and roll % dice again for the result.

2) If there is no critical and no fumble, add the attacker's AF to the roll. Also add any SLB the attacker is applying to the attack.

3) Subtract the defender's DF from the roll. Also subtract any SLB the defender is using for his or her defense.

4) If the target of the attack is using an action to parry, subtract the defender's AF (and, naturally, SLB) from the roll. Using a staff or nunchaku to parry subtracts another 20%. The target will naturally use all of his or her SLB for defense.

5) Look up the result on the Attack Result Table. If a clean miss occurs, you are done. Otherwise, continue.

6) The attacker rolls the damage inflicted by his or her weapon.

7) If a shield-side hit resulted and the character hit has a shield, he or she subtracts the shield's AP from the damage inflicted.

8) If the shield does not stop all the damage, or if the character has no shield, then the character hit subtracts the AP his or her armor stops.

9) Any remaining damage is inflicted on the character, which must be subtracted from the character's remaining DT.


Attack Results Table

Roll Result
195-199 Attack does +20 DT, bypasses 6 AP
190-194 +19 DT, bypasses 6 AP
185-189 +18 DT, bypasses 6 AP
180-184 +17 DT, bypasses 6 AP
175-179 +16 DT, bypasses 6 AP
170-174 +15 DT, bypasses 6 AP
165-169 +14 DT, bypasses 6 AP
160-164 +13 DT, bypasses 6 AP
155-159 +12 DT, bypasses 6 AP
150-154 +11 DT, bypasses 6 AP
145-149 +10 DT, bypasses 6 AP
140-144 +9 DT, bypasses 6 AP
135-139 +8 DT, bypasses 6 AP
130-134 +7 DT, bypasses 6 AP
125-129 +6 DT, bypasses 6 AP
120-124 +5 DT, bypasses 6 AP
115-119 +4 DT, bypasses 6 AP
110-114 +3 DT, bypasses 6 AP
105-109 +2 DT, bypasses 6 AP
100-104 +1 DT, bypasses 6 AP
95-99 Attack bypasses 6 AP, shield ineffective
90-94 Attack bypasses 5 AP, shield ineffective
85-89 Attack bypasses 4 AP, shield ineffective
80-84 Attack bypasses 3 AP, shield ineffective
75-79 Attack bypasses 2 AP, shield ineffective
70-74 Attack bypasses 1 AP, shield ineffective
60-69 Weapon-side hit, shield ineffective
40-59 Shield-side hit, shield stops rated AP
-39 Clean miss




As stated there are then Critical Hit and Critical fumble tables that depend on the weapon type. Crush, Slice, Impale, Chop and of course FUMBLE!

And depending on what you are doing there are other tables, say for martial arts: Disarm, Grappling, Pins, Locks, Throws, Chokes.

There also Call Shots (e.g. I am calling a shot to the head) which are much more difficult depending on the body part, but which have more specific results....

Here is an example of the Crush Critical Hit.

Quote:

Critical Results Tables

Modifications: -3 per AP of armor protection

Crush Critical

Roll Critical Result
96+ Skull smashed: + 4d10 DT damage
86-95 Ribcage crushed: +3d10 DT damage
71-85 Hip shattered: +2d10 DT damage, -10 MV
56-70 Knee destroyed: +d12 DT damage, -6 MV
41-55 Face shot, nose broken: +d8 DT damage
21-40 Shoulder bruise: +d6 DT damage, -20 AF for 2 rounds
up to 20 Elbow stung: +d4 DT damage, -20 AF for 2 rounds



I should note

DT are Hit Points
AP are Armor Points (the amount of damage your armor, or hide, or magic dohicky subtracts)
MV is Movement (speed)
AF is Attack Factor
DF is Defense Factor
SLB is Skill Level Bonus

As a rule, for your normal weapons/attacks, you will have all of the numbers crunched before combat starts, so it's a total add and subtract sort of thing based on the the opponents.

As I've noted, it's a rather complex game.

Our slogan was:

Animus, the RPG you've been training your whole life for!

Edited by user Friday, September 20, 2019 2:40:20 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Dungeon Roomba  
#33 Posted : Sunday, September 22, 2019 6:06:28 PM(UTC)
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Forget that! LASER EYES!!

Oh, I can see the first time Tom does this. He'll get super angry, and BOOM! Lasers from his eyes! Everyone will just look at him and go...hmm, that's new. <jiggle>
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Offline Tizzy  
#34 Posted : Sunday, September 22, 2019 9:30:34 PM(UTC)
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Sure, he can do that, but at this point, wouldn't it be a little "me too" (and not the Weinstein kind)

In what I call the Warnerverse corner of the multiverse, on Earth-ZS (Zach Snyder) Superman uses laser eyes quite a bit, and in the planes of the Arrowverse, Supergirl and Superman both do laser eyes a lot.

And then those supes from the Vought Corporation, good grief! Homelander uses his laser eyes for pretty much everything! I'm betting he slices cheese as often as he slices humans who get in his way.

And heck, how can Tom compete with this from the Voughtverse?
Offline Korwin  
#35 Posted : Monday, September 23, 2019 5:57:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Author Guy Go to Quoted Post
In Original D&D, Basic D&D and ADD 1/2 and I thought 3, have a maximum ability score of 18 for most normal characters/beings, and a minimum of 3.
This got changed in the third Edition (and a cap might have been brought back in the 5th Edition, not shure. Not playing that version)
Quote:
Example: Pit Fiend:
Abilities:
Str 37, Dex 27, Con 27, Int 26, Wis 26, Cha 26
Quote:

Melee Attack Procedure

1) Roll % dice (1-100).
[snip]
9) Any remaining damage is inflicted on the character, which must be subtracted from the character's remaining DT.
Quote:

Critical Results Tables

[snip]
Quote:
Our slogan was:

Animus, the RPG you've been training your whole life for!
Hmm, I get an Rolemaster vibe from this...?
It reads complicated to play?

That said, the only reason I see for an d100 are the crit rules, right? A d20 would have an higher base crit chance (5%).


In D&D 3.X (there where the 3.0 and the 3.5 Edition, which where functional the same), you add
your base attack Bonus (BAB) + your Strenght Bonus + equipment and feat boni +/- size boni/mali + 1d20 dice and compare it to the targed number (AC: Armor Class) of the target.
If you hit the AC of the opponent you have hit.

There are some additional rules for critical hit's, miss chance for invisible opponents, etc.


Offline The Author Guy  
#36 Posted : Monday, September 23, 2019 2:53:05 PM(UTC)
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Yes, as I mentioned before, it is quite complicated to play, or at least to learn. That's why we call it "The Game you've been training your whole life for."

Once you know what you are doing it's not that hard. But there is a lot of "book keeping" that you want to do with your character to be prepared for various moves you like to make so you know you've got your numbers together.

We tried to embed huge flexibility, but with codified rules. As opposed to the GM-X-Machina sort of thing that Story Teller and some others relied upon for huge flexibility.

A D20 system won't work as there are too many modifiers, up and down, this allows for a wide variety of things to influence combat.

Modifiers for things like your position relative to the target, your Desterity/Agility bonuses, your Skill Level with the weapon, the magical bonus of your weapon, magical bonus of spells, magical bonuses of other magic items. Right hand vs left hand? That's your AF

Then you have your targets DF, and that has bonuses for Dex/Agil, surprise, does he/she see it coming?, magical armor, magical devices, skill with shield, etc.

Then, is the target parrying your attack? That's something that never happens in D&D.

The 100 scale really allows us to have more varying levels of influence.

The combat was most influenced by Steve Jackson games, of which there were several with the same core rules. But yes, we had played and knew Role Master quite well. We really loved Arduin, which spun off and away from Original D&D. Space Opera, Traveler, all the old TSR games, Paranoia etc. We'd read pretty much all of them at the time even if we didn't play the more esoteric ones. Including the StoryTeller which is still quite popular (Vampire: The Masquerade, etc)

We'd also done Tunnels and Trolls.

T&T was actually sort of fun. It was basically "who has the most D6?" It was quite easy. It was something like: Each side had so many D6 to roll based on the weapon/character and both sides rolled and you took the difference, and the person with the lower total got the difference as damage.



Offline Korwin  
#37 Posted : Tuesday, September 24, 2019 5:44:21 AM(UTC)
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I could see it working (for me) if the math is done between sessions, but subtracting 3 Digit numbers from one another in battle is not an good first impression Huh Wink.

I do like in dept character generation in general.


Btw. there is parrying in D&D LOL , but it's in an late book for the 3.5 Edition.
And it's only once per round and takes your Swift Action for the next round.


There is an parry function, backed in the core game in DSA (Das Schwarze Auge) / The Dark Eye.
Combat takes (real time) ages in this game, because of that.
You have an attack number and an parry number which can be up to 5 Points appart.
To hit you need to roll under your attack number, then the opponent must roll under his parry number (with an d20).

Offline The Author Guy  
#38 Posted : Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:39:47 PM(UTC)
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You definitely have to do some adding and subtracting during the game.

I think one other piece to mention, is that the game basically requires you to use miniatures or something for place markers in close combat.

This is because "where you are" relative to who you are attacking matters.

For example, if you are planning to do a ranged attack (archer, wizard, etc) and your target is surrounded by your fellow adventurers, or even other enemies, you have to be careful or you could hit them instead.

And did I mention that lightning bolts are "hot" and that shooting a say, 2 foot wide bolt of lightning between the heads of your two best friends, who are beside each other in the 10 foot wide tunnel, and are between you and the target and are chopping at your target with swords, can leave burn marks on their ears?

Actually, this last one is solely GM's discretion, there is no official rule for it, but that is something you can easily see with the miniatures.

On the other hand, you certainly can accidentally overshoot or undershoot your target and hit someone else. That is in the rules.

Offline The Author Guy  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:41:00 PM(UTC)
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Also, that thief needs to get behind the target, secretly, and we need to see that with miniatures, before he can backstab someone with a dagger.
Offline Korwin  
#40 Posted : Wednesday, September 25, 2019 8:05:50 AM(UTC)
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Yes, facing is something D&D (3.5) could do better.
While Miniatures and a map are required by the rules (for movement in battle, attacks of oportunity , fireballs, etc.), there is still no facing, no behind the opponent.
But I can see, why they did that and I don't have an houserule to introduce it Wink


Out of curriosity, what Level is Talarius at. Considering he put up an relatively good fight against Lvl. 44 Tom?

Edited by user Wednesday, September 25, 2019 8:07:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: spelling

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